The PANTHER platform!

[QSR]

Hi Wolfdragon,
  Thanks a lot for all the information! Will review everything and will send you an email if any further questions and inquiry. It do helps a lot for 11.1V Lipo users here.  Great product!

[Gandolf]

Hi,

I have been busy 

I have long version Panthers now!



HiRes:
http://extreme-fire.com/Cheetah/PantherBunch.JPG



They are shown next to a common USB Memory stick to show the size.  They are a box 2.0 long x 0.6 wide x 0.5 high.  They will fit in a 0.75 inch ID tube easily.

They use the 3ONE logic boards:



The board files are here (ExpressPCB):

http://extreme-fire.com/Cheetah/PantherLongLogic-200.pcb

http://extreme-fire.com/Cheetah/PantherLongPower-200.pcb

Next time I order boards I will make a few tiny fit changes, but no real problems at all.

Everything else is just the same as the standard Panther.  This version just has everything moved around to make it 'long'.  The AUX connector is still there on the side, but none of the pictures here show it.  It now has a top label to help show how it is connected.  The placement diagram is here:

http://extreme-fire.com/Cheetah/PantherLongPlacement.jpeg

It looks like it will end up at $80.  It seems to be taking longer to make but I get faster all the time.

The "official" name with be "CHEETAH".  I have too many things called Panther so this version needs a new name 

So that's where it is all at this moment.

Gandolf

[QSR]

Terry,
   This looks great! Should we still wait for the new final pcb layout which you will make some tiny fit changes?  I love to try this one!

[Gandolf]

Terry,
   This looks great! Should we still wait for the new final pcb layout which you will make some tiny fit changes?  I love to try this one!

I had the shift the big 150uF 16V cap to the outer edges of it's pad and I moved the 150uF 6V cap inward to the edge of its pad.  trivial stuff...  I think i will move the AUX connector out like 0.010 or 0.020 inch.  The power board has room to add a big power trace to the top for the motor - too which might eliminate that bus wire.  There were one or two location keys that could be made better.  All trivial learning stuff...  Another board turn would clean it up, but nothing bad at all.  Just assembly "notes" 

I need to add some type of markers for the aux connector on the little paper card too.  Have to change all the naming to "Cheetah" now...  All just detail work...

I think I will make up a bunch of "kits" for those "makers" that want to play with it.  That saves me the time and saves you the cost of my time    But then you can get your inputs to me too before I turn it all.


I also 'might' have to update my sales website to reflect all the progress in the last three months       

Gandolf

[ringsted]

Hello ALL


I Have finally installed my panther SW computer i got from terry

Firstly.

I installed the panther mosfet with out computer, this blev instantly with a spark when i pulled the trigger.

i now installed the panther SW computer and it works fine.
However....

The trigger response is worse now than it was before, before it was PERFECT, now there is a delay from the gentle start up thingy, and it SUCKS.
Further, My rate og fire is 0,7 less now than before, and now i even run twice as thick wires.
Also, i wanted to hook up my 14,8 v Elite LiPO, but it just gives error code above 17.0 V. which is kind og annoying, since my cells arent that high up when i measure it says 16,8 v

I would really like some advice to overcome these problems.

Besides the above the unit runs fine and do not overheat from speed tapping.

[Gandolf]

Hi,

Can you send a description or picture of what sparked on the non-computer unit?  That was the very first prototype but It should have worked.  It had and extra external resistor I think which was a poor fix on that one too.  Maybe I need to get you the latest version now.  You are the only one to ever break a Panther in any form now so you get that honor!! 

You can turn off the soft start through secret programming.  I will send you the instructions to do that.  The voltage limit is set at 16.0V  I can send you a special chip with that changed to say 17.5V.  At about 19.0V the Transorbs would conduct so there is a big limit there.  But the computer has room for your 4 cell LiPO battery with minor reprogramming.  For the present, if you just use your battery a little or even let it sit awhile it will probably pass the computer's initial voltage limit.

Besides the above the unit runs fine and do not overheat from speed tapping.

 

Terry

UPDATE:  I was hoping the secret programming mode might over-ride the high voltage limit too.  But no, the 16V limit cannot be discarded through remote programming    (yet...  )  But I might as well raise the Panther/Cheetah's limits to like 18.0V anyway...  I can't hit the TVS voltage or that would be very bad.  I will have to look at the data sheet for the TVSs and the tolerance on the computer chip's A/D converters and determine a very save real limit there.

I have no explanation for the 0.7 decrease in ROF...  If it was simple resistance, something would be getting super HOT!!  I trust the speed control was not activated in this case.  If in single shot, maybe disabling the soft start will take care of that.

Ringsted is the "ultimate" tester    I am honored to have is input into this technology!!

Terry

[ringsted]

I will get pictures of the dead panther rigtig away, it all happened so fast but I think it was on the back of the board, I will send it to you when i have taken some pictures so you can do some error finding on it.

My current target witht the 14,8 liPo is ROF 28-30 with a Guarder M160 spring installed approx 525 FPS. It the panther can take that i will up the spring to a M170 from guarder and then we will see. That usually gives around 605 FPS. There is not much point in trying out the promehtheus M210 spring from a gaming point of view since it dont give more FPS with the heavier BB's above the 0.30 mark. but i will try with that one also if the unit holds up for the other springs. If it can take it i definatly think it is unbreakable, and then it will be installed in all my guns and i will definatly recommend them to everybody then.

Expect testing to take 1-2 months for all the springs. I will try and use my M160 as much as possible instead of my other ones. Pictures and video of testing will follow.

Cheers
Lars Ringsted 

[QSR]

I had the shift the big 150uF 16V cap to the outer edges of it's pad and I moved the 150uF 6V cap inward to the edge of its pad.  trivial stuff...  I think i will move the AUX connector out like 0.010 or 0.020 inch.  The power board has room to add a big power trace to the top for the motor - too which might eliminate that bus wire.  There were one or two location keys that could be made better.  All trivial learning stuff...  Another board turn would clean it up, but nothing bad at all.  Just assembly "notes" 

I need to add some type of markers for the aux connector on the little paper card too.  Have to change all the naming to "Cheetah" now...  All just detail work...

I think I will make up a bunch of "kits" for those "makers" that want to play with it.  That saves me the time and saves you the cost of my time    But then you can get your inputs to me too before I turn it all.


I also 'might' have to update my sales website to reflect all the progress in the last three months       

Gandolf

Hi Terry,

A lot of good improvements on the pcb!  As soon you got it all sorted out I'll get some bunch of "Kits"  and have fun with it.  This will definitely save more cost and a lot of your time.  Been busy with other work, but I am trying to sort out your schematics to incorporate the Phanter Mosfet to the SW-AB-LONG on my spare time. A bit rusty on my electrical/electronic analysis..need to review all my engineering stuff

Ringstead,
   Wow you did break the Phanter design to run without the computer, pretty interesting!    and you are running with a 14.8V lipo  same scenario of what my friends wants to do.  Really looking forward of your Pics and final solution on this.

Terry,  maybe you could email me the instruction for the secret programming mode to raise the limit of the Phanter chips I have to 18V.  I'll let Jomarx do the re-programming for me as he got the tool for it.
   

QSR

[ringsted]

Hello everybody.

I was out gaming today with the M160 with the panther mosfet computer.

I shot around 500 shots in semi auto. using a 12v 3000 mAh, 40-50 Amp discharge Elite battery.

The panther survived     

However i found that i often recived the error code that the battery voltage dropped significantly during load. One time i was pretty pressed and sent of a lot of shots i got the error code one vibration between every shot, which was kind of funny, I guess the setup draws a bit more current than i thought    So i think i will get som stronger batteries.

The setup was a follows.
Prowin gearbox
Dannys Torque CNC gears
sp160 spring from guarder.
G&P M160 motor
Super core piston
and so and so forth.

As promised a "picture" of the component that broke on the panther non computer. sorry for the extremely crappy picture my camera SUCKS. I have put a red ring around the component that blew.

[QSR]

Hmmm looks like you burned the IN5819 diode.

[Gandolf]

Hi,

Glad to hear the Panther is working well!

The voltage problem might be helped by resetting the computer, but it does sound like the battery is having trouble running the gun.

The non-computer version has a blown 1N5819 blocking diode for the internal power supply.  So you didn't break the IRL1324 or anything major like that.    Here is what might have happened.

There is an error on the PC board that is shorting the little 0.2 amp poly fuse.  So if anything in the internal power shorts the 1N5819 is the 'hard' fuse.  You can probably just short across that diode and it will all work fine again.

Since it blew when the trigger was pulled, I wonder if there was a sort to ground in the trigger circuit.  That diode supplies the positive trigger signal and if that were grounded the diode would blow.

So I would just jumper across the diode and look for a short in the trigger circuit that might have blown it.  All the important stuff on the board probably still works fine.  If you want I can get you a fixed board too.

Gandolf

[ringsted]

I will try soldering across the diode, if that wont work i will send it back and you can tjeck for errors.

EDIT:

I have solderet across the diode now and the panther non computer is working perfectly now. The semi response i better with this one actually, so i dont think i was able to shut off the slow start on the computer.

If it is all the same to you i will be using this non breaking mosfet in the M160 setup and the computer goes into my Speed gun instead.

Also i am wondering what does the diode that blew out do? and what are the consequences of me just removing it and soldering across it?

[Gandolf]

Hi,

It should do fine without the diode.  With weak or low voltage batteries the diode helps a lot, but I don't think your guns will need it    The diode blocking circuit is really left over from the computer versions.

The computer scans the trigger signal and there might be up to a 0.010 second delay in the trigger for that.  If the delay you feel is very fast maybe that is it.  Turning off the soft start though should make a very noticeable difference if you can detect very short delays like that.

Gandolf

[ringsted]

Also

I dont know if you know of this guy.

http://www.olivedragon.com/index.php?page=type-2---mosfet-switch

I have aquired one of his mosfets. It 2 uses IRF3205 thingys. I can see they are much less powerful than your panthers.

Apparently some of the other tuners in denmark have not been able to break this one either. Using Danny balanced gears with a M170 spring and 11,1 4500 mAh Elite liPo.

This goes into my third gun.

[utc_pyro]

One reason your trigger response might be so bad with the G&P M160 is that it LOVES surge startup current, and you battery might just not be keeping up. I have one in my M4 pulling a little over 250A with a SP120 and standard ratio gears. The fact that your Panther kept giving low voltage warnings seems to support this idea.

Have you tried the non computer panther with your 14.8v lipo?